Raising the Next Generation

Austin (00:02.956) Grace and peace, friends. Welcome back to United We Pray. Austin Suter joined by Joshua Chatman. How are you, sir? Joshua (00:09.294) I’m doing well. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me once again, man. How you doing, Austin? Austin (00:14.604) Man, I’m good, it’s good to see you. It’s been too long since we’ve had you back. Joshua (00:18.574) Thank you for having me back. Austin (00:20.748) Pastor Joshua K Chapman will be familiar to regular listeners of United We Pray. He’s pastor of Midtown Baptist Church in Memphis, Tennessee. He hails from Texas. He’s married to Stephanie with whom he hosts the excellent podcast, Train Him Up, which is linked in the show notes down below. Thank you so much for coming back. Joshua (00:39.854) man, thanks for having me. Again, yeah, just really love you guys, love the work that the Lord is doing through you, we pray, and just really humble that, man, you guys would have me on. And so thank you. Austin (00:52.172) Well, I don’t know how much I’ve told you about it. People like your episodes. We always get good feedback about your episodes. So people are excited to have you back. Joshua (00:59.214) praise the Lord. Austin (01:03.276) Why did you start Train Up? Joshua (01:06.958) really good question. So we started, one, we’re in the season of life that we were in. The Lord has graciously blessed us with, with children and, you know, just really want to take seriously the responsibility, to intentionally disciple our kids. And, you know, seeing that I would say, Yeah, wanting to also really seek to encourage parents in this good work. You know, I think it’s very common to reduce. discipling one’s children to just going to church on Sundays. And that’s an aspect of discipleship. And at the same time, there’s more to discipleship than that. And so I wanted to be very intentional in making it very doable and very practical and keeping it simple because I do think that simple is doable. We haven’t. My wife and I haven’t heard too many resources on this topic, too many podcasts. And so we’re just like, man, hey, this is something that by God’s grace we’ve been doing. And it seems as if the members who’ve come to see us and witness how we disciple have asked our thoughts on this. It seemed like they’ve been encouraged by this. And so why don’t we try to do a podcast on it? Austin (02:26.604) gets great. I mean, I relate to that answer just as a parent because there’s… in one sense you could prepare all you want to and you’re never prepared. It feels like for kids, like as soon as you feel like you’re meeting their needs and giving them what they need, they grow and they change and now you have to adapt again. It’s like… Joshua (02:44.91) Yeah, yeah. Austin (02:49.1) Now specifically, how do you think about raising the next generation in ways so that they are thinking well about race and ethnicity and that they’re agents of unity and bridge builders? Joshua (03:01.998) Now, this is something that we’ve definitely had to think through, as well as you guys as well. So I would love to hear from you because, you know, listeners, whether you guys know it or not, Austin and I, we’re both in, separately, obviously, but Austin and I are in multi -ethnic marriages. And so our children are diverse. Our children are not of the same ethnicity. You know, my wife is white. We have three kids. Austin’s wife is black. They have two, and so we, man, our home is diverse. And on these matters, we have to be mindful of that. We want to celebrate that. This isn’t anything that we want to ignore within the home, but rather is something that we want to make abundantly clear. You know, as clear as they see it, we want them to hear it from us, the beauty of it. And so, one, that, and two, you know, as you survey the scriptures, you see that the Lord’s heart is for a diverse people. Like the Lord Jesus has ransomed a diverse people and the people ought to be united in Him. And so with that reality, we want to raise them. raise our children of fear and instruction of the Lord. We want to give them a biblical worldview on all matters. And that includes the matters of ethnicity and God’s intended purpose is that though different, we are to be united. We are to be one. And so we not only have that as we see in scriptures, that conviction, but it’s like, man, we want to pass that on. We don’t want it to stop with us. And so, yeah, we see that as part of raising our children of fear and instruction of the Lord. is raising them to obey the great command, to love God and love neighbor. And loving neighbor is loving all kinds of neighbors, all kinds of people whom the Lord has made. And that are those who look like us and those who do not. And so to your point, being the bridge builder, I think it’s very important. What would you say? Austin (05:09.74) I think we can’t reasonably expect our kids to do something or be something that we’re not modeling for them, right? And so, like, it’d be one thing to, you know, read them books about, you know, God’s love for the nations and send them to bed, and then they, if they don’t regularly see us doing it, it’s not gonna click, it’s not gonna be real, it’s gonna be abstract. So, yeah, I mean, just, I… Joshua (05:17.774) Mmm. Mmm, yeah. Joshua (05:32.973) Hmm… Yeah. Austin (05:40.268) where a ministry encouraging people toward multi -ethnic unity, if that’s a part of your life, I think it’s gonna be a natural thing for your kids to pick up on, right? Joshua (05:49.678) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Austin (05:52.876) I appreciate you taking it straight to scripture, that’s why we have you on here. But what are some of the key doctrines that you think you want to make sure kids know and understand? Joshua (06:06.03) man, well one, that they’re made in the image of God. You know, as we see it in Genesis, Genesis one, it’s like God comes out the gate making known that God is a creating God. and that he has made all of creation and he has made human beings distinct from everything else that he’s created because man is made in his image. And so we want to be very intentional in teaching them about the Imago Dei. Genesis 1, 26 to 27, you know, God made, let us make man in our own image after our likeness. God made man in his own image. And that verse stresses the fact that they are made in the image of God. And seeing it that is emphasized, I want to be very intentional in emphasizing that to our children. So I want to educate them on this matter. We see it also, same thing, Acts chapter 17 verse 26, like God made from one man, you know, like it spreads throughout, like it starts with Adam and everyone else is a child of Adam. And so what we see is though we don’t all look the same, we’re all equally made in the image of God. And so we want to teach that. So I will start with the Imago Day. It’s very important. Anything you want to add to that or? Austin (07:25.484) There’s a couple I was thinking through and I’m just thinking through, we’re a big book household. Our kids both love books. I’m really grateful for that. And I don’t know that we did anything. Like I think they just came out like in books, which is just a blessing. Yeah, yes. Our son who can’t talk yet will pick one up and walk over to you and from point blank range throw it at your face. It gets you to read it too. Joshua (07:30.862) Mm -hmm, same. Joshua (07:39.598) Praise the Lord. Austin (07:53.58) But I’m thinking through the books we read with them and I’m grateful for books aimed at kids that they can understand that are so clear about the gospel and our need to be saved and our sin problem. Like, you know, my daughter’s three and she understands, she has a doctrine of sin and it’s good. I wish, well, and it’s not up to books necessarily to, you know, disciple my kids, but I went. Joshua (08:03.182) Hmm… Yeah. Yeah. Joshua (08:11.214) Mmm, come on. Austin (08:21.644) I want to be clear with them about God’s plan for a multi -ethnic family. And have that be a part of their understanding of the gospel, that the gospel is for all peoples and it’s there in the first pronouncements of the gospel, it’s there in the Great Commission, it’s there in consummation in the book of Revelation. That’s part of it. And if that is sort of stapled on to the back of your understanding of the gospel, it’s incomplete, it’s not biblical, right? So… Joshua (08:25.408) Mmm, yeah. Joshua (08:30.638) Yes. Joshua (08:38.542) Mmm. Come on. Joshua (08:44.27) Absolutely. Joshua (08:49.23) Mm -hmm. That’s good. Austin (08:51.724) Yeah, I just, that’s what God’s about and so that’s what we’re gonna be about and gotta make that really clear with the kids. While we’re on the topic of books, any good books you wanna plug? Joshua (08:56.27) Amen. Joshua (09:03.822) Man, there’s a ton of good books I want to work on. Even just as you talked about it, like, you know, man, God Made Me and You by Shai Lin. This book is extremely helpful on the topic of, you know, everybody’s made image of God. You have a clear understanding of the gospel and the work of Christ and uniting a people to, yeah, to one another in him. Austin (09:07.372) Go for it. Austin (09:14.412) Yeah. Joshua (09:31.694) Another resource that I’ve really loved, part of educating our children on the reality of diversity and what sin has brought about, particularly as it pertains to, you know, within ethnicities, and particularly in the United States, how sin is antisocial and sin has led to oppression of people of color. and so the book, the gospel in color, I know you guys have interviewed, Dr. Jarvis Williams and Dr. Curtis Woods years ago, earlier in the podcast, but I really love this book, because we get to talk about, you know, again, being made the image of God, sin, what sin has done. And really gonna talk about diversity and unity and those things like that and what Jesus has done. And so I really love this book for our kids. I love the representation. You know, Trillia Nubel, God’s very good idea. I just think resources are very important as we disciple our children on these matters. Not just resources that deals with the topic. Though I’m very grateful to the Lord that there are more, especially in recent years. Along with that, I think it’s important to put before children, regardless of what color they’re, of any ethnicity, put before children just the resources of a diversity of people. You know, like every children’s book doesn’t necessarily have to talk about diversity in order for the pictures to be diverse. And as we put these types of resources in front of our kids, that kind of helps shape their view. It impacts them. It’s influential just by exposing them to a plethora of resources where it’s like, man, you know. Joshua (11:24.366) whether you’re Hispanic or white or black, you’re seeing resources of children of different ethnicities. You’re seeing resources of children of families, you know? And so that kind of pushes back this false narrative that… you know, one ethnicity’s family, their families look whole, their families are all put together, whereas people of other ethnicities, their families are just broken homes. Well, it’s like, man, when you give resources that shows families of different ethnicities, it is a tangible way to push back against that false narrative. And so I just think resources are very important. Austin (12:01.836) I agree with that. I love that answer and I wanted to specifically shout out to Good Book Company for doing exactly what you’re talking about. Good Book Company does it as well as anybody. We had Carl Lafferton on the podcast earlier. I can’t remember if it was this year or last year. But we had him on to talk about that and their whole decision making as a company to have diverse illustrators who, I mean, good for them. Joshua (12:23.214) Mm -hmm. Joshua (12:27.054) Hmm… Praise the Lord. Yeah, absolutely. Praise the Lord. Austin (12:31.34) Yeah, they’re doing really good work. Now, you mentioned talking to them about sin and sin in the world. Inevitably, at some point, you’re gonna have to talk with them about history. How do you do that well? Joshua (12:47.438) Yeah. Yeah. Man, I don’t know. How do you do it well? I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m doing it well, but just try to do it and be faithful. man. So the way we’ve thought about it, we try to do the four E’s. Educate, expose. Austin (12:55.884) Thanks. Joshua (13:12.942) embrace, equip, and this kind of goes under that E of educate. As we think about like history, our nation’s history, and so my children are five, three, and almost two, five, four, and two, and we’ve started having those convos at a very young age. Like they know that what sin has done in our country to where people who look like daddy were enslaved to people who look like mommy. in that they were seen as inferior and less than, and we try to put it in very simple terms, and we just try to be very clear, you know, and so we talk about those things, we talk about how it’s sin, because, you know, we sought to catechize our children in that, you know, God has made us in his image, and is daddy made of the image of God? Yeah, is mommy made in the image of God? Yes. And so we try to like, be honest with our kids, like very forthright with them in the simplest of ways to where they can understand it. What about you? Austin (14:27.596) Yeah, I mean part of this answer, how do you talk to your kids about history, is you have to know history. And depending on your setting, your upbringing, your education, my mom was just talking to me about this because she got in her public school education in the state of Virginia, at that time she got quite a bit of propaganda in terms of. Joshua (14:32.366) Mm -hmm. Facts. Joshua (14:53.006) Hmm. Hmm. Austin (14:54.22) And I did too. I’m in my 30s and I was taught the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression. So it took some intentional effort. Joshua (15:03.502) Yeah, same. I was taught that it was… Yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily taught that it was fundamentally about slavery. Austin (15:09.868) Yeah, yeah, so, you know, for, I encourage all of us to do reading on history and to, you know, we’ve got lists of book recommendations about how deep this problem was and how the effects linger, and if we don’t know it, we can’t teach it. So, that’s a big part of it. Now, you mentioned earlier how we are both in multi -ethnic families. Joshua (15:17.326) Thanks. Joshua (15:29.966) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Joshua (15:38.894) Mm -hmm. Austin (15:39.02) And kids are funny, man, because kids are observant. Like… Joshua (15:43.022) Yup. Austin (15:46.732) and they just say stuff, you know, they don’t have the social filter and… But at the same time, it’s kind of refreshing dealing with a kid because they don’t have, you know, the cultural baggage imparted on them necessarily or as easily. So I remember my daughter, I think this week, this week or last, like put her arm next to her little brother and said, dad, he looks like me. Joshua (15:50.67) yeah. Joshua (16:02.862) Hmm. Austin (16:13.548) and she was just observing that ethnically, you know, in terms of skin tone, they’re a pair, they’re a set, they match, and they look different than mommy and they look different than daddy. Do you get those kind of questions from your kids? Joshua (16:16.59) Hmm. Joshua (16:21.87) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Joshua (16:29.934) yeah. Very often, you know, we, again, we talked to them like how God made daddy black and we told them God made mommy white and God made them mixed. And, and, and so. You know, we’ve had some of those convos and man, in our highs and lows, this is kind of funny, especially when we have guests over. Like in our highs and lows, sometimes, you know, we have a whole little chant. And if you ever come to the Chapman house, man, we love chants. And so when we, when we ask each other our highs and lows, we like describe the person who we’re going to ask, you know, like, you know, whatever shirt they have on, like, I’m going to ask this one. So we have a whole beat and. You know, the kids sometimes, my oldest in particular, when we have guests, he just tries to, he puts on this way. It’s like, I’m going to ask this one who’s white, who has this color shirt on and straight hair. They’d be like, mommy. And so like, like. And what’s funny is, you know, that’s normal for us. Like we crack up about it. And what’s also funny is even funnier is like sometimes we see our guests, like sometimes they would even turn red or they crack up very hard. It just like almost like, I can’t believe this child just said that. But it’s like, yeah, like, you know, we talk about these things. We want them to know that and mommy’s white, you know, and, and, and they ask sometimes like, you know, God make daddy black. It’s like because God is creative. And God is good. And our blackness and whiteness and y ‘all’s mixness, if that’s even a word, like those things are good. Austin (18:23.404) I think it’s important to create space for kids to feel like they can have those conversations and ask those questions. I mean, we shouldn’t impart any second -hand embarrassment onto them for observing God’s creativity. I mean, that would be the worst thing we could do in the moment. Do you think kids are more or less aware of differences than we are? Joshua (18:35.214) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Joshua (18:48.686) Mmm. I think they are probably… I would say it kind of depends on the parent and your household and the type of culture that you’ve set in your house. Because for some parents, for some kids, they’re probably as observant as their parent. They’re just more vocal than their parent, if that makes sense. Because, man, kids are, to your point, kids are unfiltered. But I would say they’re probably as observant as we are. And they’re more, they’re able to catch on more than what many parents think. They’re more observant than what we give them credit for, if that makes sense. Austin (19:44.46) Are there things you try to avoid doing in order to protect and instruct your kids? Joshua (19:53.774) Can you break that question down just a little bit for me? What do you mean? Austin (19:57.74) just thinking of like are there any personal tendencies that you’ve observed in your parenting that you’re like I gotta I gotta try to stop doing that or saying that or I’ve seen I’ve seen them be sensitive in this area or curious in this area and I want to tap in and make sure I’m highlighting that. Joshua (20:19.694) Mmm. Joshua (20:26.03) Man, that’s a good question. So some of it is like, yes, I think. Joshua (20:40.046) How do I say this? Yeah, I think there are some things to where I’m just like, man, that I just don’t want them to be exposed to. And I need to be mindful of man, like whether it’s the music that I’m listening to or, you know, like I want to be careful in what they’re hearing. Like, you know, I love hip hop. some hip hop songs I would love, I don’t mind them listening to. And then others, it’s just like, yeah. You know, like I listed a clean version, I just don’t want y ‘all to hear that. You know, so it’s stuff like that, where I’m just like, man, I just have to be very careful of, if that makes sense. Or, again, language, like, you know, not that I’m just cussing and stuff like that, cause that’s not the case. But at the same time, it’s like, yeah, there are just some terms that I just don’t want them to know about, or they’re just not ready. You know, like, man, I want them to learn the N word from me, not because I want them to say it, but I want them to, I want to educate them on these matters, on that word, and the history, and stuff like that, and why we don’t use that term. But like, at five, four, and two, right now, it’s not the time for me to do that. Does that make sense? Austin (22:03.852) Yeah, yeah it does. I was thinking similarly about things they consume yesterday actually. My daughter was in a… She was having her screen time. She was good at rest time, so she got a little bit of screen time. And she picked an old cartoon movie, and it’s not one I want her watching again, because there were just straight up racist tropes in this old cartoon. I mean, that stuff was so common. It’s in so much of the old media, and I would just rather her not be anywhere around that. Joshua (22:29.486) Hmm. Joshua (22:35.534) Yes. Joshua (22:40.494) Yeah. Yeah. Austin (22:45.036) Now, how do you, your kids are a little bit older than mine, how do you advocate for your kids or put them in the right kinds of situations to where there are other kids that look like them or they’re not the only ones who aren’t white, for example? Joshua (23:01.166) Yeah, man, it takes a lot of prayer, a lot of intentionality and conversations with my wife. You know, and so it’s like, man, it’s a big staple in our family. It’s a firm conviction that we just don’t want to bring the diversity everywhere we go. And so with that, that informs, you know, what type of sports league we put our kids in and stuff like that. To where it’s like, yeah, we’d probably be more apt to put our children in a league that’s in the city. and less likely to put our children in something that’s in a church league in and of itself. Stop knocking church leagues, I’m grateful my kid, my son just played basketball in one. And part of that is because we registered at the very last minute so we couldn’t find something. And so I was like, okay, but like, man, when we’re proactive, like with soccer, I won’t, like we, for two straight years, we had our oldest be do soccer within the city. which allowed them to be around people of other ethnicities and not just be the only minority there. And so stuff like that or even… You know, in the past we did like swim lessons with our kids and it was at a local YMCA, which was great because there were some kids in there who looked like daddy, there were some kids in there who looked like mommy, there were some kids in there of a different ethnicity and stuff like that. And so we try to be very intentional in those things. In the ways that we can, we try to be intentional in those ways. It’s part of the reason why we love like, you know, the YMCA that we go to that’s really close to our home. Joshua (24:48.944) Like they’re childcare workers. There’s a diversity of childcare workers and there’s a diversity of kids that go into their, to that space, which is so sweet. And that also influences us as it pertains to the education, you know, which the direction we’re going to go with our kids, as far as their education goes, like that is a huge pillar for us. When we filter, when we think through our decisions, like, man, we want the education to be quality. And also we want there to be really good representation. You know, whether it’s, you know, the students, the staff, and with Memphis being a diverse city, that kind of, that gives us an opportunity. There’s more opportunities here for that. And so like that does impact what we do in those ways. What about y ‘all? Austin (25:41.964) Yeah, I like, well, same, we did swim lessons at the local Y last year, that was nice. I mean, we’re in a little bit different setting in that our church is really diverse, and so just in the weekly rhythm. But I know that’s not the case for everybody. Joshua (25:52.75) Mmm, praise God. Joshua (25:57.582) Mm -hmm. Austin (25:57.676) And I wanted to highlight something from your answer, which is just the importance of diverse representation for kids. That’s not just important for mixed kids or black kids. It’s important for everybody to be around lots of different kinds of people, to be a well -rounded person who understands that all people are made in the image of God. Everybody matters, you know? So. Joshua (26:08.174) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Joshua (26:17.262) Hmm… Facts. Austin (26:20.588) White parents would encourage you to do the same kinds of things Josh is talking about doing. I know it’s not available for everyone everywhere, but these are good things to be thinking about. And I love the idea of, it almost feels like cheating to use something like a sports league or a swim lesson that you’re gonna do anyway. Why not do it in a place where your kids are gonna get to be around kids who don’t look like them? Joshua (26:36.686) Mm -hmm. Joshua (26:41.87) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And even as you talk about parents, parents of all ethnicities, like, you know, we love UB Prays, a ministry devoted to prayer and praying about, you know, racial strife and, you know, pursuing ethnic harmony among Christians. Like one of the things we try to teach our kids is, you know, on Thursdays we pray for parents to raise their children. to love a diversity of people. Like, and so that’s one of the things that we’re trying to put before our kids is one of the things we’re trying to pray for ourselves and pray for our church and also have our children pray for as well, you know, to the point you just made. Like, man, hey, white parents, you know. pursue some of these things is like, man, we want parents of all ethnicities, black, white, and everywhere in between to be praying like, Lord, help us to raise our children to love all kinds of people who look differently in light of the gospel. Help us to be intentional in that and help us to really model that. Because as you pointed out earlier, more things are caught than taught. You know, if I want my kids to have diverse dinner tables later in life, when they have a home of their own, it was like, well, how much more should they see mommy and daddy do that now? You know. Austin (28:05.58) Absolutely. And I’m grateful in my life for ways my folks did that when I was growing up and I grew up in a place that wasn’t very diverse. But they exposed me to art and literature and history that I wasn’t getting anywhere else. They made sure I got it at home and I caught it. Like I, you know, so yeah, I’m grateful for them on that. Joshua (28:13.774) Mm. Joshua (28:19.854) Yeah. Mmm. Joshua (28:26.07) Praise the Lord. Austin (28:34.252) question I have on here because we’ve been sort of assuming that we’re talking to parents. We may be talking to grandparents, we may be talking to single unmarried folks, maybe talking to folks with no kids. How can people who are not raising kids help support those who are? Joshua (28:42.158) Mm -hmm. Joshua (28:52.782) Hmm. Man, you ask really good questions. You ask. Austin (29:01.9) That’s why I have you on Josh, you say nice things. Joshua (29:11.054) Yeah, I would say, and I’d love to hear you, because you got a lot of wisdom, prayer, 100%. So pray for the children, pray for the parents, pray in how you can partner. I would say resources, you know, the things that we’ve talked about, like just because, you know, having kids or… If they’re your grandkids, you can still do this. If they your nephew, your niece, or man, they’re just, they’re your friends’ kids. Like you can pray, you can give resources, you can have encouraging and hopefully edifying conversations with the parents on these things. Like how have some of those convos have been? Is there any way that I could, you know, be an encouragement or resource or something like that? And so I would say, I would say encourage, I would say maybe even host the family. Like if you single or if you don’t have kids, you can still host families in your home and kind of live out some of those things in front of those kids, regardless of their ethnicity. Go ahead. Austin (30:28.844) No, your last point is exactly the one I wanted to make, which is hospitality. I think people who don’t have kids or are not currently raising kids either forget or just don’t know how tiring it can be and just how, like, what we’re talking about, my, you see, you see this? Joshua (30:42.35) It’s not tiring? I know, I feel you, I got these bags. Austin (30:52.364) But what we’re talking about feels like it could even just be way down the list of making sure they’re fed and clothed and changed and just all the logistics of keeping this tiny person alive when all he wants to do is jump off the recliner head first, you know. And I’m trying to talk to him about loving people that don’t look like him. Like, you know, the task of parenting can feel so overwhelming and daunting and even just the blessing. Joshua (31:01.742) Hmm. Joshua (31:08.878) Yeah. Joshua (31:14.542) Ehh. Austin (31:20.396) that we’ve seen the church be to us. I mean, we moved here to Birmingham a really long way from family. And I, shortly after we got here, I heard someone in conversation say, well, the only parenting hack is to call their grandparents. And I was like, well, shoot, we just messed that up. But the other parenting hack is the church because the way folks have just blessed us and, you know, just taken our kids or, Joshua (31:23.022) Hmm. Joshua (31:42.99) Mmm. Come on. Mmm. Austin (31:50.54) you know, scheduling play dates and making a way for our kids to be around lots of people, lots of other kinds of people, and just see that as normal and just see us all living out this family together. Like, it’s such a blessing to us. And I don’t know how we would have gotten through our son’s first year without the church being so generous to us. But that… Joshua (31:50.99) Mmm. Joshua (31:57.55) Mm -hmm. Come on. Joshua (32:12.942) Amen. Austin (32:14.988) requires a level of intentionality on people’s parts and then being hospitable and hospitality is not just having people over to your house, right? There’s lots of ways to be hospitable. But that’s a Christian virtue. And when we exercise it, it just, it really builds people up. And so to anyone listening who has blessed my family that way, thank you. Joshua (32:18.254) Thanks. Joshua (32:22.542) No. Mm -hmm. Joshua (32:31.918) Yeah. And likewise, my family for folks at NBC and Delray. Austin (32:41.548) It was spaghetti ritto, right? Joshua (32:44.238) Just for a little bit, it’s a sweet season. Austin (32:46.956) Yeah, good folks up there. All right, well, why don’t we close by praying we can pray for our families and for those listening that we would do this well to raise up the next generation. Want me to start and you can close? Joshua (32:58.926) Yeah? Let me start. sure. Austin (33:06.028) Heavenly Father, thank you for this conversation. Thank you for the privilege that both Josh and I have to be raising children. It’s a holy and weighty responsibility. We pray that we would do it well, do it in ways that honor you. We pray that we would raise our kids in the fear and knowledge of you and raise them to love all of their neighbors, whether they look like them or not. And then we pray for our listeners, whether they are… raising kids or whether they love someone who is, that they would have in mind to be hospitable and intentional in living out both the Great Commission and the Great Commandment to see your gospel and your love extend to the ends of the earth. Praise in Jesus’ name, amen. Joshua (33:47.822) Mm -hmm. Joshua (33:53.126) Amen. Father, you say that children are a blessing and they definitely are. And God, we praise you for just the stewardship that you’ve given parents, the responsibility to raise image -bearers in the fear and instruction of Christ, to raise them to love you and to love their neighbor. Father, what a privilege it is. Do pray that we be found faithful in this endeavor. Do pray that by your grace and spirit, fruit would be produced. God, that we be very intentional in exposing our kids to a diversity of people and loving them genuinely before their very eyes and encouraging them to do that very same thing. Father, we know that more things are caught than taught. And so Father, we do pray that… by our way of life, by your grace, by our way of life, they’ll be instructed on these matters to where they would imitate us. And as they do so, they’ll be imitating Jesus. Father, we pray that the next generation, the children whom we have raised would have an even greater impact in this area to where like, man, next generation see that it’s even more normal now or then. in the future as it is, than it is right now, as it pertains to the hospitality, the deliberateness in loving people who look like and do not look like us, and the motivation be the love of Christ. In light of Jesus laying down his life for a diverse people, ransoming a diverse people, making a diverse people his own. And Father, in light of your scriptures, command us to love our neighbors ourselves. We do pray that we be very intentional. to live this out and to impart these truths to our children and that you would bear good fruit in their lives. In Jesus name, amen. Austin (35:57.228) Josh, thank you so much for coming on and thank you for your work. Please, listeners, check out Train Up. You can find the link in our show notes, but good work is happening over there. So thank you again, sir. Joshua (36:08.334) Thanks for having me. Love y ‘all. Austin (36:10.7) All right, thank you for listening. Grace and peace.