Political Virtues: Faith

Austin (00:02.462) I’m in my third year. It’s a good start. Just 30 more and I’ll get to it. Then I get one of those beards. Yeah, the gray beard. You guys ready? Yeah. Grace and peace friends. Welcome back to another episode of United We Pray, coming to you from the study of Pastor Steve Bateman. How are you, sir? Good. How are you? We’re doing great. We’re glad to be here. I’m going to read your bio here so I don’t miss anything. Steve Bateman was born in St. Louis, Missouri and raised in Charlotte, North Carolina. I didn’t know that. He earned his BA degree from Columbia International University in 1983, his THM from Dallas in 91, and his Doctorate of Ministry from RTS in 2004. Four years he was a youth pastor at Northwest Bible Church in Houston, Texas, and then a singles pastor at McKinney Memorial Bible Church in Fort Worth for three years before coming to First Bible Church of Decatur in 92. He and his wife Lori were married in 1985 and they have two children, Josh and Joy. Steve, thank you so much for doing this, man. You’re so welcome. Steve, we said we wouldn’t do any divisive stuff on the show. That wasn’t exactly true. Let’s just get the main important thing out of the way. So you’re from Charlotte, North Carolina. Does that mean? your Atari Hill fan and why is the answer yes? And I know that, I knew that you were gonna ask that question. Is that why you wore your Carolina blue? Just for me to try? Yeah, that’s right, Carolina blue for you. I mean, we’re recording this at the time of March Madness, we need to cut timestamps, we can, but Steve, these matters are important. I deliver to you what is of first importance. What’s the answer, brother? Yes. Really, so you’re not a Duke fan? No, well, it depends on who’s winning. Oh, I never had to choose. The church I grew up in Charlotte, it was divided, kind of like the church here is over Auburn and Alabama. Yep, yep, yep. I’ve had to walk a really careful line. Me too, brother. I’ve had to learn. I’ve heard to learn that line down here. So a wise pastoral answer. We will consider you a Tar Heel in all seriousness. Thank you for your friendship to me, your friendship to this ministry, your friendship to just our church and just grateful for you, brother. Thanks for having us. And we’re doing an event together. Austin (02:13.344) to co-labor that much more during an event up here at this dear congregation you’ve shepherded for so long. So thank you. Yes, thank you. Try not to hit the table. Sorry. It’s okay. We’ll cut that, but yeah. So friends, we’ve been doing this series on political idolatry, which we hope has been helpful to you, but one thing we’re careful about as a ministry, we’re not just trying to critique. And so we’ve done a few weeks worth of critique, which we think is important, but we’re not trying to do just that. So we’re calling out political idolatry, but want to spend a few weeks now looking at Christian virtues, which, when lived out faithfully, serve our public life together. So just off the top, Pastor Steve, do you think Christians should be involved in politics? Absolutely. Why is that? Well, it’s part of the command that we’re given to love our neighbors. So it’s interesting where the word politics is from a Greek word that means city, polis, and there’s several words in the New Testament that word that’s the root word for that. In fact, Philippians, which we’ll talk about in a minute, has several words for that. So city. Politics, I tell people in our church, I have no problem with politics. I love politics. I’ve always loved politics and I think Christians should be involved in politics. My problem is with partisan politics. And so I make a distinction between politics and partisan politics. The first casualty in partisan politics is always the truth. And so consequently, instead of people trying to find a solution or trying to deal with facts and the truth. succeeding in this or that. So politics in its basic form is just the art of living together in close proximity, living in a city. And so we have to learn how to live together and so that’s why I think we should be engaged in politics for the glory of God, for the good of all people. And so on living together and something you’ll hear I think often today and I’m sure you feel as a pastor is that this is an anxious time and people get particularly anxious Austin (04:19.492) anxious around politics. Right. And maybe that’s because we’re in close proximity. But I would love to know, like Steve, why do people get so anxious about politics? Well, you mentioned political idolatry. So I think the more political idolatry, the more political anxiety. And the reason is if you have put your hope and your trust that only belongs in God in the political system or politician. Austin (04:49.432) been structured especially in recent days and then this just gets amped up with the internet and social media is it’s driven by anxiety. So get back to partisan politics. There has to be manufactured anxiety to motivate you to get out and vote not so much for someone but to get out and vote against someone. So you’re feeling anxious and scared and in the evangelical world I think what we’ve seen in the last several years is just a lot of fear. The the velocity of change has been so rapid. Especially older evangelicals are fearful of what’s happened in our country. So you can see how you get anxious. When you get anxious, you tend to look in the wrong places for solutions. That’s good. And it just makes me think too, especially when we’re relating or operating from a place of fear, one response we have to that is trying to control things. And even seeing our vote as a means of control, and itself and a right we thank God for to express our voice when we see it as this is a way of my controlling the outcome and you realize how little control you have. Right. I think it probably adds that much more to anxiety. So I really appreciate the rooting it in fear and the stoking of fear as a reality. So friends just behind the curtain a little bit, we knew we wanted to do this episode and we were mapping it out and we were trying to think who we would have on to talk about the virtue of faith in public life. And then Steve wrote a fantastic article that we will link to in the show notes that was all about reasonableness as relates to politics. You wrote about this idea of Christians should be reasonable people. Where do, where did you get that from scripture? Okay. Well, it’s especially, I think if there’s any letter. of all the New Testament letters or any book of the Bible that really speaks to the moment for us politically. It’s the book of Philippians. If you ask most Christians, it’s probably one of the most beloved books of all because it’s one of the most optimistic. The theme of rejoicing the Lord. Again, I say rejoice. And then we have historically reminded people that Paul, what makes that so remarkable is that Paul’s speaking from prison. But he’s a political prisoner. He’s a prisoner of Rome. Austin (07:05.762) And eventually he will be tried for what is essentially subverting the state because of the claims that he makes about Christ in all of this. So actually, Philippians, people don’t realize this, but Philippians is a really political book. Interesting. So reasonableness, that word. Is this a fruit of faith? Is, I mean, talk to us more about reasonableness. Well, it’s a… Why that concept when there is rejoicing and so much going on? It’s a character, it’s a virtue that is commanded by God in Scripture. In fact, the same Greek word is in both lists of qualifications for elders, in Titus 1 and also 1 Timothy 3. Okay. So sometimes it’s translated here in Philippians 4, Sometimes it’s translated as gentle, mild. So let me read before I’m reading this. In the context, let me back up to chapter 4 verse 2. I entreat Yoia and I entreat Senteke to agree in the Lord. These are two women, they got sideways with each other, and they’re serving the church there in Philippi. So you know that unity is an issue here too, in the context. Yes, I ask you also to companion, help these women who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement, the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Rejoice in the Lord. There’s the theme. Always. Again, I’ll say rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known. Reasonable must be known to everyone the Lord is at hand I see that the sentence doesn’t in there Mm-hmm do not be anxious about anything But in everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God Well, and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus One of the one of the most beloved verses in the Bible be anxious about nothing. Mm-hmm people don’t realize that it’s in the context Austin (09:10.762) of political anxiety. Because there’s several reasons they say that. One is the history of Philippi itself. So after Julius Caesar was assassinated by Brutus and his company, the army of Mark Anthony caught Mark Anthony caught him and his army right outside of Philippi. So the Battle of Philippi is where Mark Anthony defeated Brutus. And so it’s a real famous place. then they released a lot of the veteran soldiers who established a colony. It’s a Roman colony which made it a leading city. It’s like a little Rome outside of Rome. And so it was very, very important in the Roman Empire. It’s also in Acts when it says how the church got started is that you have the most detailed explanation of one of Paul’s arrests. So he was arrested a lot. He gets arrested in Philippi for preaching the word. And he goes to jail, and this is when the Philippian jailer comes to Christ. What must I do to be saved? And it’s right after that he says, but he appeals to his citizenship in Rome, and they become fearful, the magistrates become fearful, because here’s a Roman citizen, they beat him, put him in jail without due process. You can’t do that. So it gets the church, so the city’s a politically leading city. that political environment. And then Greek vocabulary within the book of Philippians itself uses a couple words that Paul never uses anywhere else. One of them is in chapter 1 verse 27. only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ. So the ESV translation of manner of life is from a Greek word that’s based from that polis. Okay. It’s a political word that literally means behave like a citizen. So let your manner of life, in other words, behave like a citizen. Austin (11:17.41) to be worthy of the gospel. Well, the question is citizen of where? Well, then he uses another one of those political words, which is, this is a hopax legamina, which means it’s only one time mentioned in the New Testament, polituma. chapter three, verse 20, but our citizenship is in heaven from which we await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. So he has a dual citizenship as a Roman citizen, but a citizen of heaven. And what he’s saying to the church of Philippi is, act like a citizen of heaven. The church is an outpost, just like Philippi is a Roman colony of Rome. The church is an outpost and a colony of heaven. And so we represent Christ as his ambassadors. Okay now, take all that together. It’s also in Philippians, one of those most famous passages. where it says in Philippians 2, therefore God has highly exalted him, bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. But Caesar’s Lord. And you would have to say as a citizen, you would have to pronounce your allegiance to Caesar by saying Caesar is Lord. And what Paul is saying is, Caesar’s gonna bow to Jesus as his Lord. You can bow now voluntarily or you can bow under compulsion, but you can bow. Austin (12:53.934) Do you know you’re getting all that with Dr. Steve? I did not know we were coming around. I was like, I really meant to be like, first I need a, first thank you brother. I was just, just pouncing through this book. No, I was like, this sermon is delicious. Like, I’m just here being edified and I really want a pen right now. I also want to write stuff down, but I can do that. Well, you know we’re taping this, right? Yeah. Me too. Come back. I’ll just do that afterwards, but thank you brother. Well, that’s a, that’s a little. I think it’s not like this important to get the basis for everything I say politically is built on that. Jesus is Lord. Yes. Because I think it will end… I think that’s important to root it in the text, that’s no surprise. But I think a lot of people could hear what might feel like political preaching nowadays and be like, well, you’re just forcing that in there. And you know, this is just your hobby horse or whatever you maybe you’re like, this is actually the context of these years. It’s the context of the Philippians. Exactly. And it’s the context of us and God means for us to learn from this. So thank you, brother, for rooting it there. Just book chapters and verses. Yeah. That was great and in a lot of ways what you just laid out for us is a positive vision for faith. This is putting your faith in action in this context as we trust that God will deliver us not only from this present evil age but that he’s also sovereignly reigning now and causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. He is Lord. So how does that help us when say an election doesn’t go our way? Well, it didn’t go, it didn’t go Paul’s way either. He went to prison. So the way you define success is, is really going to govern all of this. And so what I try to teach our people is you look through scripture, whether it’s in Ecclesiastes or New Testament, success is always doing the right thing and trusting God with the outcome. That’s good. And, uh, Daniel did the right thing and he got put in a lion’s den. Austin (14:54.314) Shadrach did the right thing politically and he went to the furnace. Paul does the right thing and he goes to prison. We might do the right thing and the person or the policies that we vote for may not win, but we come away with our integrity intact as a citizen of heaven. And that’s a win. That’s a win. That’s success. In the eyes of God, that’s a success. Well, if Jesus is Lord, all you have to do is look through church history and see that the church has thrived, survived. Jesus has built his church when it’s politically favorable and when it’s not. And he just keeps doing what he does. Steve, insofar as God doing what he does, and I’m not asking about a certain political outcome here. This is more a general question, probably theological on many levels, obviously. Is there ever a case when we should think of a political outcome as judgment from God? So God is doing all that he intends to do. And if so, how do we handle that? Being reasonable citizens of his kingdom. Yeah, I think you read Romans 1 and you think… Some have said, well, Okay, well, judgment could be coming and Romans 1 is pretty clear that judgment’s here. We just went through 1st and 2nd Kings. I’m preaching through that on Sunday mornings and you can see, not just God working through and in the nation of Israel, but through the nations around us. He raises up Babylon and gives it success politically, militarily, not because Babylon’s good, but because they’re an instrument of God in His hand to bring discipline to His people. Um, but God does, uh, judge nations. And I think especially, um, you know, there’s a lot of talk these days. I think, I think there’s a good resurgence in the interest of natural law. And, um, and so the nations that promote and protect the moral law of God. Austin (17:03.638) And by that I mean the first four commands in the Ten Commandments, that a nation that gives religious freedom to those. And they don’t try to promote any religion. But the next six, which have to do with your love for your neighbor, the second table, the nation that protects the sanctity of life, don’t murder, that protects the sanctity of marriage, don’t commit adultery, those nations. through God’s common grace will be blessed. That’s the best form of culture in which human beings can flourish. And when a nation turns away, a government turns away from that, yeah, I think we can expect judgment. Expect judgment. Mm-hmm, thank you for sharing that, brother. Something else you wrote about in that article is something that comes up a lot in discussions about our current moment, and that’s just the… broad spectrum of information that you get on a topic. There are allegations of fake news, of our society being post-truth, and when you put all that in the context of social media and cable news, it just seems like a mess. So how do reasonable, faithful Christians discern what is true? That’s another podcast. Give us another sermon, brother. Well, in fact, I have written another article at TGC on that exactly, that topic. Because, well. First of all, remember this isn’t new. There’s always been misinformation and disinformation, and no one mastered it better than the Romans did. So Caesar had control of the flow of information. The cursus publicus that I talk about in the article was the official imperial courier system. Roman roads, right? All Roman roads lead to Rome. This huge empire, there has to be communication. And that flow of information is controlled by Rome, is controlled by Caesar. Austin (19:01.648) information highway. That was the internet. Roman roads, couriers. But the same Roman roads also had couriers of the gospel. So the apostles from Jerusalem to the end of the earth traveled these Roman roads. So there’s information going back and forth on the Roman roads. And so even then, You have to, you cannot take any information at face value. Paul warns the church at Thessalonica that there are false letters going around in his name. So there’s disinformation already going on. Written letters that are forgeries. So how do you, one of the ways you test that is, was there an eyewitness there who saw the, a pathoditis is the courier who delivers the letter from Paul to the church of Philippi. And he can say, brothers, I saw Paul write this. He can confirm it. So there is a beauty. This I wrote with my own hand. Exactly. Yeah, colossal. So there’s, you can see the way he writes. You have witnesses who saw him writing this. And so Paul is constantly warning them. Don’t believe everything you see or read or hear. So every Christian in every generation has a duty to discern the truth. And it requires a special skill set with the internet. So you’ve got to understand algorithms. One of the things I say to our congregation, if you’re going to watch one cable news program, you’ve got to watch them all. That’s good, brother. So we take advantage of a free press. Our founders were brilliant in giving us the First Amendment. Free press means there’s marketplace competition for information and there’s incentive for different agencies to find the truth. So you have to triangulate that truth by using multiple sources. And there’s a whole skill set that we need. I’ll be honest with you, I think part of discipleship these days… Austin (21:02.61) in churches is teaching our people how to discern the truth on the internet. That’s probably true. I think there has to be classes for that. Thank you, brother. As we sort of close it here, just to land the plane a little bit, how would you encourage faithful, reasonable people to disagree well? Austin (21:27.338) You know, one of the things that you see in Philippians over and over again is the stress on humility. So, you see the great humility of Christ who made himself nothing. And then he says, have the same mind in you. And if it starts with humility, which says, first of all, I don’t know everything. You might know something I don’t know. So I want to hear what you have to say. James gives us really good wisdom. Let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. So, in humility, have a humility posture of learning where, okay, this is my position right now based on this evidence. Have you got evidence that can sway me? I’m open to it. And then we have to agree sometimes to disagree, but that’s where theological triage comes in and we figure out, okay, these are first order doctrines. I’ll fight you on that. Yeah, yeah. Austin (22:29.22) There’s room in this church for different opinions on the best way to address the issue at the border. Well, and I know Austin, you’re trying to two things I want to say just on humility, something I’ve just been thinking about lately is how so many of our relationships and interactions with one another taste sour because they’re missing the key ingredient of humility. Yeah. You know, it just like it. I am. I continue to be astounded how quickly pride can stop a conversation and how quickly and sweetly humility can engender one. Yes, it’s just, it’s, I think I’m only, so you were talking about you’re in your 33rd year and I’m in my third year and I’m just like, wow, this is just so true. This is just so true. So for you to say that 30 years down the line, I’m like, yeah, wow, I can only see that. So that’s one thought. The other thought I had just as we transitioned to prayer, because we pray on every show and this United we pray. But There’s just this beautiful thread in Philippians 4 that you brought us to before, but just to, I think this just pulls us into the airport of prayer so well. If we’re looking at 4-5, let your reasonableness, so there’s the word we’ve been talking about, be known to everyone, the Lord is at hand, do not be anxious about anything but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God in the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding. Well, guard your minds in Christ Jesus. And I just thought we started by talking about talk to reasonableness and Paul has this thread in the context of political anxiety. And I was like, yeah, this thread right here is just like, these are all the threads that are represented at this table and in this conversation. Well he intentionally makes it a book end. Let your reasonableness be known to men. You should be famous on earth as a Christian for being reasonable. God help us. Let your requests be made known to God. Austin (24:35.186) So your request, you should be famous in heaven for making requests. Are you writing a book? Like, wait, this is really… That’s the book end. Yeah. So I know Paul wrote it, but like Steve, this is really good. Agilase like praise on this. And this is all like I’m like, man, this book is incredible. But brother, I do just praise God for your ability to distill all that. And I’m like, that’s really good. And things I didn’t realize the Bible said until I was today, years old. So Steve and sorry, but so yes, famous on Earth. Your reasonableness known to everyone. Book in one. Backbook and famous in having your reasonableness in heaven. They should be going. Oh, there’s Isaac again Yeah, there’s Bateman again. Hmm asking for God to be merciful to our country And just to tie it back into what we’ve been talking about in the series on political idolatry It may be that your lack of reasonableness your lack of ability to disagree But to agree in the Lord is diagnostic of idolatry that you’ve allowed Yes. Your partisanship to define your triage. I can no longer disagree about this with a believer because someone tells me this is a matter of first importance. It’s a symptom of idolatry, fear, insecurity. If you’re not secure in your position, you get really testy if someone challenges it. Austin (26:13.374) I’m just sitting there thinking, God help us. Yeah. I’m ready to pray a lot of these. I’m good with that. You want to open? Yeah. I’ll go second. Steve, you can close us. Sure. Father, we do just praise you for this book, for your book, Lord. Where else would we go? You have the words of eternal life. And we thank you that we are not the first Christians to ever live. and that these things were written for our instruction. And so Lord, I thank you for how clearly and reasonably Steve has instructed us from this dear book of Philippians. Lord, we pray this episode that you would use it to reduce anxiety and to instill confidence in you, God, as in Jesus as Lord. And Father, we know every knee will bow and say that. And Lord, we pray that more knees would even Lord, we thank you that our hope is in heaven, our citizenship is in heaven, and Lord, I do pray that, we pray that we would live as citizens of heaven. in this fallen world and age. And Father, yeah, I just pray that we would be famous on earth for our reasonableness and famous in heaven for knocking on your door. And Father, we submit this, I submit this with thanksgiving for our dear brother, Steve, and the Lord will pray that you would bless his ministry and that you would bless his church and every church represented by the listeners here in a tumultuous political season that we would be anxious for nothing and that truly the gospel would run as a result. In Jesus’ name. Amen. I echo, Father, I echo Isaac’s thanks for Steve. Thank you for the discernment and clarity that you’ve given him. We pray that you raise up many more brothers and sisters in the faith who will look at the torrent of just chaos and misinformation and anxiety and say, no thank you, I know who the real king is. Austin (28:20.062) So we pray that for our listeners. We pray that our reasonableness would be an exercise of our faith in you and our security that we know we have in you, regardless of what is going around. May your word and books like Philippians, written by a jailed man, just anchor us in our faith and give us courage to be reasonable. We ask that in Jesus’ name, amen. And Father, in obedience to your command to us, to pray for those who are in authority over us. And it’s my privilege in the name of Jesus Christ to lift up before you, President Joe Biden, to lift up also to you, Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Chief Justice John Roberts, the governor of our own state, the three of us live in, Kay Ivey. We pray that you would give them wisdom and surround them with wise counselors so that we can lead quiet lives and that the paths of communication for the gospel would remain clear as we experience and enjoy the religious freedom that we have enjoyed here for two centuries and more and we are grateful to you. And we recognize that is a gift from you, that is a stewardship from you. We pray that you make us people who are politically optimistic, that we’re not afraid, that we wouldn’t be known for being fearful or angry or bitter or tempted to compromise because maybe the ends justify the means because the situation is so dire. Help us to trust in you and to be good representatives of you as citizens of heaven on this earth in Jesus name. Amen. Steve, this was great. Thank you so much for doing this. Enjoyed it. And friends, thank you so much for listening. Grace and peace. Austin (30:20.886) Brother Steve, that was strong, man. That was good. Why don’t you just get up and get the- Did I talk too much? No, oh my goodness. Once I get going, but I, I know that you guys gotta, you’ll edit that the way you want to. No.